DEEPHAVEN BOAT COMMITTEE
WEDNESDAY,
MARCH 14, 2007
MINUTES
Vice-Chairman
Pete Onstad called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Pete Onstad, Larry Parkhurst (enters at 7:10 p.m.), Marc Anderson (enters at 7:03 p.m.), Ed Towey, John Finn, Michael Kelly, Sue Jerutis, Council Liaison Keith Kask, City Administrator Young
The Committee approved the February 14, 2007 minutes on a motion by John Finn, seconded by Ed Towey. Motion carried 5-0.
There
were no Matters from the Floor.
Keith
Kask gave a brief summary of the public meeting that was held at the March 5,
2007 Council meeting on the St. Louis Bay dock addition.
Pete
Onstad stated that he felt that there were three issues that the City Council
requested the Boat Committee to consider at the March 5th public
meeting:
1. Whether the dock expansion
at St. Louis Bay impeded the use of the boat ramp.
2. The recommended weight limit
for boats on slides.
3. Who should have the first
opportunity for a B1 Slide and how should the waiting list for B1 Slides be
determined.
Jim
Dorf, 3675 Northome Avenue, stated that he expressed his concern to the City
Council at the March 5, 2007 public meeting that the expansion of the dock
would make it much more difficult to launch boats from the St. Louis Bay
ramp. He stated that the ramp is
excellent for launching sailboats with a keel due to its deep water. He added that the installation of additional
docks only 50’ from the ramp would limit the ability to launch sailboats and
make it that much more difficult for powerboats to steer around the new docks
to trailer their boat especially in high winds.
Ed
Towey stated that he believes that Carson’s Bay launch has even deeper water
than the St. Louis Bay launch. He stated
that the accumulating sand at St. Louis Bay is filling in the launch area and
that he has never heard of anyone launching a sailboat from St. Louis Bay.
John
Finn asked is anyone knew how many people would be affected by the more limited
access to St. Louis Bay ramp. He stated
that we do know there is a need for an additional 10 slips.
Sue
Jerutis stated that she launches her sailboat from Carson’s Bay ramp every year
and her sailboat has a keel.
Ed
Towey stated that he believes that you would have to have a swing keel when
using the St. Louis Bay ramp because it is too shallow. He added that he sees people launching their
boat at Carson’s Bay all the time.
Jim
Dorf stated that the new docks might take away some of the usefulness of the
ramp but perhaps it would still be doable even with the addition.
Pete
Onstad stated that there could be an additional encumbrance at the St. Louis
Bay ramp due to the addition of the new docks and some people who ordinarily
used St. Louis Bay may now have to use Carson’s Bay. However, he felt that the benefit of adding
10 new slips would be worth the additional difficulties.
Motion
by Michael Kelly to recommend the approval of the St. Louis Bay dock plan as
submitted. Seconded by John Finn. Motion carried 7-0.
Keith Kask stated that the recommendation of the Boat Committee was to establish 20 B1 Slides. He stated that the issue on the eligibility for B1 Slides for the 2007 season still needs to be clarified. He stated that it was originally estimated that there were 11 permit holders that had boats in excess of the 5’4” width requirement prior to the adoption of the slide width requirement in May 2004. However, he noted that City staff has indicated that this number might be as high as 20.
He
stated that the City Council directed staff last year to inform all slide
permit holders that they will not be permitted to place boats in excess of the
5’4” width requirement on City slides for the 2007 boating season unless they
already had a boat in excess of the 5’4” standard prior to the adoption of the
width requirement in May 2004. He stated
that he is not comfortable with a solution that would exclude the nine or so
individuals who do not meet this standard who are currently using the
resource. He stated that at this point,
we don’t accurately know the number of individuals who are or who are not in
compliance with the 5’4” width standard.
He
stated that the nine or so individuals with boats in excess of 5’4” after the
adoption of the width standard did not intentionally purchase overly wide boats
to challenge the City’s moral authority.
He stated that he would not like to tell the nine individuals to take
their boats off of the slides only to find out that the City was not able to
find anyone willing to take the spaces.
He stated that the City, as a public entity, cannot operate the marina
like a private company and is uncomfortable with any solution that says its OK
for 20 people who are grandfathered to have a wide slide and not OK for those 9
who are not grandfathered.
Pete
Onstad stated that he and several other members of the Boat Committee measured
all the boats on the slides last May. He
stated that he returned and measured all the remaining boats on June 16th. He stated while there were still a few slide
spaces that were empty, he figured that he had measured the vast majority of
the boats. He stated that from their
measurements it was determined that there were a total of 20 boats in excess of
5’4” – 11 of those with boats prior to May 2004 and 9 with boats that had been
added after May 2004. However, within
the last week, he stated that City staff has identified an additional 13 boats
that had not been measured, measured incorrectly or that weren’t on the slide
space on June 16th. He stated
that if staff is correct, this would increase the total number of non-compliant
boats from the original 20 to 33. He
added that four of the 13 are Boston Whalers, which he believes might be in
compliance with the width standards, there is still some confusion as to the
accurate number of overly wide boats.
Ed
Towey stated that he thought it unlikely that there would be an additional 13
boats over and above the original estimate of 20 that would be too wide.
Pete
Onstad stated that City staff had also informed him that there are an
additional five unfilled slide spaces this year, bringing the total number of
unfilled slide spaces for the 2007 Boating Season to 15. He noted that ten of these 15 slide spaces
would be converted into B1 Slides. He
added that if we convert four of the additional five slide spaces into B1
Slides we might be able to accommodate everyone.
Keith
Kask stated that one of the key issues at this point is who should get the 20
B1 Slides? He stated that the Council
believes that those with boats that have been grandfathered should get the
first opportunity. He stated that it is
undecided at this point who should get the second opportunity for a B1
Slide. He recommended the following
solution:
·
The first opportunity for the B1 Slides would go to those with boats in
excess to the 5’4” width prior to May 2004.
·
The City could issue wide slide permits for those remaining boats in
excess of the 5’4” width. He stated that
after factoring out ten pallets for the B1 Slides, there are 13 pallets
remaining in Carson’s Bay and 16 pallets remaining in St. Louis Bay. Wide slide permits could be issued to
individuals and their boats could be positioned in the middle of each of the
remaining 29 pallets fairly easily.
·
Consider not implementing the slide winch systems at this time. He stated that he believes that the public is
content without a required winch particularly if they have a boat in the 5’6”
range.
Ed
Towey asked what if someone doesn’t want a B1 Slide and would simply prefer to
keep his or her wider boat using a wider slide permit?
Pete
Onstad asked if there would be any incentive for people wanting B1 Slides if
wider slide permits were available?
Keith
Kask explained that B1 Slides would still be more desirable because the provide
a better slide facility for wider boats and wide slide permits would only be
issued for one year depending on the availability of space on the B2
slides. He stated that he doesn’t
understand why would the City want to force someone off with a non-compliant
boat when a wide slide space permit could be issued that would fit a wider boat
between a jet ski and a skiff.
Larry
Parkhurst asked why the Council was considering offering B1 Slides to only
those slide holders who obtained a slide after the adoption of the width
ordinance in May 2004. He stated that
there might be a number of individuals who have been on a slide for years who
are looking forward to buying a wider boat.
Keith
Kask stated that the Council doesn’t know what their motivation was for
purchasing the type of boat they did. We
only know what type of boats we currently have.
Michael
Kelly asked if we wouldn’t be rewarding those individuals who are not in
compliance with the width requirement by allowing them the opportunity for a B1
Slide?
Keith
Kask stated that he struggles with penalizing those people who are actually using
their boats and actually have already received a resource from the City.
John
Finn stated that we should try to accommodate 24 wider boats by providing an
additional four B1 slide spaces. He
stated that we should recommend keeping wider boats separate. He stated that what has been done in the past
is done and we have to put something together to get things moving. He added that everyone should have the
opportunity for a wider boat.
Larry
Parkhurst stated that he believes that B1 Slides are such a valuable resource
that they should also be made available to those people who are on the dock
waiting list as well as the slide list.
Jeff
Williams, 19105 Highland Avenue, stated that he was awarded a slide space a
couple of years ago and asked what the restrictions were for boats on the
slides. He stated that he was informed
by Councilmember Kim Crockett to keep the width of the boat within the 5’4”
width requirement. He stated that he
would love the opportunity to have a bigger boat.
Keith
Kask recommended that the Boat Committee consider rescinding or amending the
5’4” width requirement to allow individuals with boats in excess of 5’4” to
obtain a permit for a wider boat.
Ed
Towey added that a boat should not exceed the 5’4” width requirement on a B2 Slide
without obtaining a wide slide permit from the City.
Further
discussion was held on the need to contact slide permit holders to obtain
accurate information on the length and width of their boat in order to properly
administer the placement of wider boats.
Marc
Anderson commented that perhaps the Committee has been too focused on B1 Slide
spaces and should consider permitting wider boats for everyone. He stated that he doesn’t see the logic in
giving an 8’ wide slide space for someone with a 5’6” boat.
Motion
by Ed Towey to recommend the adoption of the following B1 Slide policy:
1. First priority to fill B1
Slides should be given to those individuals with boats in excess of the 5’4”
width requirement who had their boat on a slide prior to May 2004.
2. Second priority to fill B1
Slides should be given to those remaining boats in excess of the 5’4” width
requirement with the highest priority given to those with the widest boats.
3. Any other slide permit
holder with a boat in excess of 5’4” can apply for a “wide slide permit” from
the City Council, with the appropriate permit fee to be determined later.
4. Any additional empty slide
spaces should be converted to B1 Slide spaces.
John
Finn seconded the motion. Motion carried
7-0.
Motion by John Finn to establish the priority for the original waiting list for B1 Slides by the earliest date that residents either received a mooring space or entered onto a mooring space waiting list. Seconded by Ed Towey. Motion carried 7-0.
The
Committee recommended that a winch system should not be required for a B1 slide
unless the permit holder felt that the size and weight of his or her boat
necessitated the installation of a winch system. If a winch system were requested, the permit
holder should be required to use an approved winch system. The weight of the boat should not exceed the
maximum weight recommended by the manufacturer of the winch.
Motion
by Marc Anderson to recommend the maximum length of 18’ and maximum width of 8’
for boats on B1 Slides. Seconded by John
Finn. Motion carried 7-0.
The
Committee tabled discussion on dredging in St. Louis Bay and Carson’s Bay until
next month.
Motion
to adjourn by Larry Parkhurst, seconded by Marc Anderson. Motion carried 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:20 p.m. The next regularly scheduled meeting of the
Deephaven Boat Committee will be held on Wednesday, April 11, 2007.